Do I remember how to do this? Welcome to the panel where two bootstrappers talk about building a better business and a better life. I'm Justin Jackson, cofounder of Transistor. Fm.
Brian:And I'm Brian Castle. I am a creator of Builder Methods.
Justin:Alright. And Back at it. We are just looking at the chat here. It's 2020 everybody. Happy New Year.
Justin:There's just excitement is in the air. There's excitement here on our live chat. We got Ryan and Emmett. Everyone's saying hello to each other. And
Brian:Yeah.
Justin:Pascal is like, how's it going? All aspirationals. This is this is the time of the year, man.
Brian:It's It's it's the new it's the new year energy. It's it's January. I I have noticed that I think both of us, I I see some activity coming coming from your end, building some stuff, vibe coding, launching new products. I'm cure like, so we are sitting here recording. It's been, what, at least two or three weeks since our last recording, and we went through the holidays and everything.
Brian:Yeah. You know, we'll we'll get into today, like, probably some some updates. We'll I think we'll try to get into some 2026 predictions maybe. Yep. We'll see.
Brian:Yep. Yep. But I think it's interesting. I'm curious to know for you if whatever you were thinking about back in December as you ended the year and looking ahead into next year, maybe maybe making goals or priorities and things like like it's like we do that and then we chill with the family and and and do the holidays, and then we come back to work. Has anything changed in terms of like, actually, it's a the the new plan.
Brian:Like, for me, some some plans have changed already. Interesting.
Justin:The one thing that turning my brain off and stepping back from work does is it creates space to start having ideas and thoughts. Actually, I wrote one note in my Apple notes. I was looking at it, and it just said, oh, no. I've got the disease again. And the disease is waking up at, like, two in the morning and then having this thought of like, oh, shoot.
Justin:I I I gotta write that idea down in my Apple notes. So I write it down, and then I put the phone back beside my bed. And then I'm like, oh, no. I got another idea. And then I write that down and put the phone back beside my bed.
Brian:Disease. I mean, that just sounds like my life.
Justin:I mean, the disease is a blessing and a curse because they're they're like, when I was in that phase of writing the initial version of marketing for developers, running all those mega maker experiments, doing the build and launch podcast, like, I was just afflicted by insomnia. Like, I could not sleep because I would my brain as soon as I had a quiet moment, my brain would just erupt with ideas. And frankly, the blessing of transistor has been, I just don't get that as much anymore. It's like and like I said, it's a blessing and a curse. But
Brian:Yeah. No. I mean, I totally I totally feel you. And I and I know that, like, you've you've had you've you you have, like, settled into the the steady state of a of a of a successful, profitable running SaaS business for multiple years. Like, I could totally see how you you have had arrived at, like, I I don't have to have the urgency anymore.
Brian:Right? And and, you know, as everyone knows listening to me rant on on these podcasts, you know, like, I haven't lost that urgency. And it's something that I that I continuously try to strive for is, like, get to a get to a state in my business where I don't feel that because I I too am constantly jotting down notes and ideas and like new product ideas, new whatever, like marketing initiatives or strategies. And like these days, it's all within builder methods. Mhmm.
Brian:But even within builder methods, there's like a thousand things that I wanna do that I feel like I don't have enough days or hours in the day to do.
Justin:Yeah. I mean, the thing is I think the danger is as as rough as it is not being able to sleep and just getting it's an adrenaline rush. Like, that's the only way I can describe it is middle of the night, you start having ideas, and the ideas are flowing out of you in a way they just if I could capture that mode just during my waking hours, like sometimes it happens, but it's just like, you just need to have maybe I need to meditate more or I don't know. Like, it's just your brain is quiet. And then it has space to start thinking about stuff.
Justin:And it's so activating. It just feels like you're having good idea after good idea that it's sparking in a way that it doesn't really any other time for me. And so being able to recapture some of that over the holidays was, like, interesting. And most of those notes I was writing down were related to how would I rewrite marketing for developers. So that seed was, like, planted in my head.
Justin:And then it was like, what how would I do that? Like, what would so that, for me, I think, is what changed is when we did our last call, I was like, yeah. I'll think about this.
Brian:I I think you left it like, yeah. I I might do marketing for developers at some point in 2026. We'll we'll see. And now it seems like you're you're full
Justin:speed up. I'm like 80%, but I think I I've committed.
Brian:Oh, you're more than that, dude. You're you're vibe coding a whole membership site behind it.
Justin:I mean Such a funny story about that too.
Brian:I I so so, like, today, we're gonna we're gonna talk about marketing for developers and your your rerelease of of the book, which is definitely, absolutely happening. You're gonna be shipping it. I I also decided recently that I'm gonna be doing a Claude code course, and I just launched the just launched the the landing page for that. So I'll I'll get into that and then talk about some a little bit what what's on the on the urgent list for me over there. But alright.
Brian:I wanna hear what I'm seeing from you with Yeah. Marketing for developers is is that energy that you're talking about. Like, you're and I think correct me if I'm wrong. This is aside aside from Transistor, this is like, what, like, one of it's been a while since you launched, like, a new product outside of Transistor. Right?
Justin:No. I think I've launched something every year. Like, did Swag Fan last was that 2024 that I did Swag Fan?
Brian:Okay. But I thought that was, like, the other guy's project.
Justin:I mean, it was a project with that that student that I hired. But, you know, I was working on it with him, launched it with him. So I think I've done something almost every year. But, yes, that every year kinda has a side project. And this one, I think I mean, we'll see.
Justin:It has the potential to it's it's an interesting one for me.
Brian:Let me ask you a couple of questions about it. Yeah. So what aside from, like, the content we'll we'll we could talk about the content in a minute. But I'm just curious, like, as a product, what is changing? Like, is the price the same as you used to sell it for?
Brian:Is something gonna change there? I know there's, a membership component. What's your sort of vision structurally for this thing?
Justin:Okay. So this rewrite, this project has multiple jobs to be done for me. Mhmm. Okay. So number one is I wanted to rewrite this book for it's been ten years, and I've been wanting to rewrite it for a while.
Justin:And now with so many people building with AI, it just felt like there's this new wave and this new perspective that I think we could bring to it now. There was other things like, was like, man, I've learned so much in marketing and growing Transistor that I'd like to share. But it never felt like enough to, you know, kind of push me to rewrite the book. So that was one part. The the second thing is that my company, Transistor, serves creators.
Justin:And I started out in 2008 blogging, 2012 podcasting. And those two things, plus my email newsletter, really have created every opportunity I've had ever since. And they've been a huge part of my life. And I wanted in the same way, I think this podcast with you last year helped me get back into what's it like to make a podcast every week.
Brian:Mhmm.
Justin:I wanted another project where it's like like, I remember being at that early stage and going, man, it'd be so amazing if I could, like, build an audience and then sell them something. And how would that ever happen? And and just all of the that experience, I want to inhabit that again so that I can better serve our transistor customers. And our transistor customers are wrestling with this stuff. They're wrestling
Brian:with I didn't know you were thinking about the connection to the transistor customers.
Justin:Because they're they're wrestling with memberships. Like, we're doing a big integration with Ghost right now that's all around memberships. They're, you know, private podcasts, public podcasts, ads, you know, using your podcast and your blog together and having the ability to sell products. So I wanted to inhabit that again and really kind of feel it again.
Brian:Yeah. And I clearly and, like, the purpose of that is to be able to really speak to them. Like like.
Justin:Yes. Speak to them.
Brian:Like, how do you get back to the place where you are sort of like you where you are the potential customer for for this, both for transistor and for marketing for developers?
Justin:And as soon as it as soon as you get in the process again so now I'm back in it. I'm like, okay. Gotta build a website. Okay. Gotta build how is this gonna get monetized?
Justin:It's gonna be membership plus the book? What's the pricing? How's the podcast going to relate to this? Well, we should have a public show and a private show. I think I talked a little bit about this our last episode.
Justin:So I'm just thinking through everything again. And it's as real for me now as it was, you know, ten, fifteen years ago. Except the one difference is I don't have as much financial pressure as I had back then, which is significant. But
Brian:In terms of a topic for a book, it does seem like such a good year to do to do a relaunch of marketing for developers. And also just the angle that you wrote it ten years ago, and this is the the 2026 version. And, like, it's true. The whole world has completely changed.
Justin:Yes. You know? Yes.
Brian:And that has a it it has a obviously, a huge impact on how products get built, but definitely marketing too. Yes. Yeah. I would imagine that, like, everything in the book is gonna be different from what you wrote the first time.
Justin:This has been so helpful. So the the other reason I wanted to do this is because I did want to have another project to use Cursor with. And Mhmm. Ghost is not meant for what I'm doing with it. So I I wanted to build a custom membership site in ghost, but really craft it and shape it to kind of what I want.
Justin:And I'm having so much freaking fun doing this. It's just it's the the first version is live right now. And this is the other thing. It was like, shipping before I'm ready. Like, just I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this.
Justin:So if people go to marketingfordevelopers.com right now, they can check this out. There's some really cool shit that I built for this. Like, I'll I'll just give you one example. Ghost has this idea of a, like, kind of an account modal, which isn't awesome. It's just, like, basically kind of what you see when you sign up.
Justin:So let's just let me just sign up as a free person here. And for the listener at home, all I'm doing is I'm just signing up for a free thing. So I'm gonna choose this free email update thing. I wanted to build a custom membership dashboard for people, you know, people signing up, both free folks and for paid folks. Mhmm.
Justin:So I've just logged in, and this is what I built just the other day. So you click on this account thing. This is all custom. The normal the normal thing you would see in ghost is just a modal like this that's like, you know, kind of hovers above the website. This is a custom dashboard built just for my members.
Justin:I've I love building member dashboards. I've done this probably, I don't know, six or seven times in my lifetime. And it's just so fun to play around with this. This is just all cursor. This is just
Brian:it me. Doesn't so, like, Ghost doesn't give you the, like, the ability to say, like, this page is protected for members with with these permissions?
Justin:It does give you some of that. Yes. But to really customize it like, most of the people using Ghost don't have a separate account settings page like this, where they're able to show all of the member benefits on one page. So, like, even if you go to, like, four zero four Media is a big ghost customer. And if you look at their account page, it's it's just a little modal.
Justin:Like, they're not customizing it in in the same way.
Brian:Interesting. Yeah. I built the like, the Builder Methods membership is all, you know, Rails, totally custom. And, yeah, it has been interesting. Because and and like you, like, I have people who sign up for different things.
Brian:So, like, there's people who only buy tickets to a workshop, but they don't buy a membership to Builder Methods Pro.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:And then there are people who do have Builder Methods Pro who are entitled to have access to the workshops.
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:And it's and then there's, like, the idea of inviting team members and and giving seats to team members and revoking seats. And so, like, when that team member is logged in, what what can they and can't they access? It's it's been a whole thing.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah. So I I can't go quite that that complex. But out of the box, there's a lot I can do here. So this is a free member, so they don't have access to Discord.
Justin:It asks them to upgrade when they click on these. Mhmm. This person even people who sign up for the free plan get access to the original audiobook. So this is the there's a Transistor Ghost integration I was telling you about that allows you to say, this private podcast, we're gonna add that subscriber from Ghost to Transistor, and this is actually my custom RSS feed just for me, just as a subscriber. So Yeah.
Justin:I've been Nice. Added to Transistor. Now look what happens if I I log in as a paid person. And the reason I had to do this is because Zach Gilbert in our chat here, he signed up for a paid plan. So I already have one paid customer, Zach Gilbert.
Justin:I was like, I didn't have any of this built. And so yesterday, just in a I did a livestream.
Brian:You can always count on Zach to So test your checkout
Justin:I'm like, gotta build something for Zach.
Brian:We appreciate you, Zach.
Justin:I gotta build something for Zach. So I built this dashboard, which is for paid members. Now he can click on the Discord community. He'll get special access to different parts of the book. I don't have anything for video training yet, but I'm gonna add that.
Justin:And maybe I'll do some workshops as well. So and then look at what he gets. He gets the marketing for developers private podcast members only. So not in his membership tier, he gets both
Brian:What's your plan for that?
Justin:So so that there, I think what I'm gonna do is do long form interviews, like, with people like Lars Lofgren. I was even talking to Adam Wavin about, like, I'd love to do a big interview with him just about how AI disrupted his the marketing for Tailwind. Obviously, he's been in the news a lot the last few days in terms of that, like, just how much LLMs have disrupted the top of his funnel. So, yeah, long form interviews.
Brian:On that, I'm I'm about to start releasing episodes of the Builder Methods show, which is primarily gonna be a YouTube show. And I've recorded five of them now. And it's I'm I'm gonna be doing a similar model to that where it's like and I I mean, I developed, a whole editing process for this. I we can go into it at some point later on. But like the
Justin:Oh, sweet.
Brian:So the the whole premise of that show is, like, come on the show, share your screen, and show me how you build with AI and your and the story of how you've transitioned to start to use AI and show me how you build stuff. Yeah. Had a bunch of really good guests on so far. But these end up being, like, over an hour of, like, pretty rambling conversations like, oh, show me that. Oh, what are you doing over there?
Brian:What are we building over here? And so that's kinda cool. But I to produce it as a quality YouTube video, I had to, like, set up a process to have AI analyze it and find, the three most most interesting parts and then edit those out. So I think what I'm gonna end up doing is, like, release the episode as, like, an like, cut down all the raw footage down to, like, a twenty five minute show Yeah. With a with, like, really interesting clips and me interjecting with, like, monologue.
Brian:Like, okay. And now we're gonna talk about this really cool idea and and then cut back to the interview and stuff
Justin:like that. Mhmm.
Brian:Yep. So that goes on YouTube public for free for everyone. But then I think members of Builder Methods Pro will get access to the full unedited raw interview if you want the whole backstory and and all of that.
Justin:Interesting. I I'm thinking about adopting a different model, which is something the Making Sense podcast has done for years, which is the public version fades out halfway through and says, if you want the rest of this conversation, you have to become a member. Mhmm. And then members get the full conversation. It's something I've always wanted to try.
Justin:And so I'm gonna try it out. And Sweet. It might just be Zach that hears them, but I'm I'm I'm just loving this whole process. Just just this whole thing.
Brian:Great. Like, oh, I want a thing. Boom.
Justin:Dude. And here's another example. I'll stop talking in a second. But here's another example of how AI can help you make decisions and kind of work stuff out. So my original vision was, okay, I've got the original book.
Justin:Why don't I just chapter by chapter rewrite it for 2026?
Brian:This is what I wanna actually ask
Justin:you about. So I I started posting the chapters here on Ghost and just seeing how that felt. Right? And originally, there was an indicator that said, oh, here's the original version. Here's a version I'm rewriting.
Justin:And then the idea is that eventually it'd be like, oh, here's the new version of that chapter. And once I got it, like, Cursor, I was able to, you know, build all that out and look at it and just see how it felt and actually start posting chapters and being like, how does this feel? And I eventually realized, I don't think that's the right approach. I think it would be better for me to just post the original book for free online that people can read. And then in a separate section, just start writing new chapters.
Justin:And the idea is I'm gonna start writing new chapters, but you'll only be able to see the top kind of excerpt. And then the rest will only be available to members as I'm writing it. And so they'll be able to see see the progress of me writing the new book. But instead of just saying, oh, I'm just here's a chapter from the old book I'm rewriting, it it helped me separate those two things and go, no. The original book's gonna be over here, a separate thing.
Justin:And then
Brian:I think you can really play up the angle of old versus new.
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:I I like the idea that you're dripping out chapter by chapter, but I think that, like okay. I'm just totally thinking out loud here.
Justin:Let's hear it.
Brian:But but what if, like like, I I just think that the most interesting kernel of information to me would be about, like, what have you changed your mind on or what what are you seeing that's completely different now? And so if as you go, like, once you have new chapters written, either you or AI can go through your old chapter and highlight the sections, like, literally highlight them and say, like and and have some sort of, like like, bookmark on them or, like, a little side sidebar tab. Like, hey, you're reading this. My things have changed.
Justin:Oh, that's such a great idea.
Brian:Like, this is like like, whatever you're like, this paragraph that you're reading now, like, the 2020 that's not true anymore in 2026. And and so then maybe it's like the old book is available for free to the public Yeah. As, like, the the, like, public and maybe, like, you know, you could maybe use AI to, like, reorganize this, like pull out the key points that you wrote about back in 2015 that are different now. And that's like the teaser to bring you into the new chapter. Love that.
Brian:You know?
Justin:I love that idea. Yeah. Like, can imagine, like, just
Brian:And that and and also, like, in the content of your new chapters, like and you're really good at this in in your blog posts, like, quote yourself from the old one. Yes. Like, back in I I I said this, and now here's what I think.
Justin:Yes. So kind of both and like having this kind of annotated version of the original book that points out, hey, like if you're reading this, I've changed my mind on this. And you can check that out in the new book. But then
Brian:Do you ever read you ever read Stratectory?
Justin:Yes.
Brian:And he does that a lot. Right? He's constantly quoting himself from previous articles. You know?
Justin:Yeah. Like like annotated updates. Yeah. I I love this idea. I love this idea.
Justin:And then in the new book saying, yeah, back in 2015, I wrote, but that's all changed now. Like, this is this is what's what's changed.
Brian:I'm curious. Like, I know that you were talking about your motivation with, like, getting back into the into the product person's seat and the and the and the product launching experience. But is there any other motivation for you around, like do you have any, like, big ideas for marketing in 2026 that you really wanna get out here?
Justin:I think so. I was talking about this a bit on the livestream, like because people are like, well, like, start talking about some of the stuff that you're saying, some of the new things you're thinking about. And I think there's some, like, technical things that I think people don't realize aren't thinking about that are going to be really helpful. That's gonna include, you know, things like here's what you can do to help seed LLMs with your content. Here's some things to watch out for.
Justin:For example, like, be really careful about what you make a big splash about publicly. Because if you change your mind on that, LLMs will often hold on to that for a long time. For example, when we launched Transistor, we launched it as the podcast hosting platform for businesses, and there's still lots of LLMs that categorize us that way.
Brian:Oh, that and that's actually informing one of my 2026 predictions that I'm just remembering about now. Okay.
Justin:So, yeah, I've got lots of technical ideas, but I think and we can get into this when we get into the predictions. There the in some ways, the fundamentals haven't changed. But if if there was an ocean of people building stuff trying to get noticed, what's changed in 2026 is that ocean is going to get a lot bigger. And so the and the challenge with asking LLMs for marketing advice and product direction advice is they are trained on the average. And when it comes to marketing and product positioning, the average is equals death.
Justin:If you are average, that means you are not above the high high watermark for having a business that works. If your app is just average, if your idea is just average, if your marketing is just average, or put another way, if your app is just what everyone else is doing, if your marketing is just what everyone else is doing, if, like, if you're just safe, safe, safe across the board, and kind of middle of the road across the board, that's now you're just in a bigger ocean with more of those people. There's going to be a thousand other people doing the same mediocre job as you would be doing. And so it raises the bar for everything. But it also gives you opportunities.
Justin:Because now, I think people have already noticed this. If when you're scrolling, and it's just like that same, like, tweet boy stuff on Twitter, and it's the same TikTok stuff on TikTok, it's the same Instagram stuff. As soon as something breaks through that's, like, just totally unique, that really takes you really take notice. And one theme that you and I identified last year that I've been thinking a lot about is what makes people stop is real vulnerability, real humanness, real human connection. And there's even a fake version of that online that's really annoying.
Justin:Like this like influencer, like, you know, you know, if you're struggling with thoughts of this, then you gotta do these five things. It's like, people are just getting allergic to that stuff.
Brian:There's also a lot of fake, like, vulnerability shit. Like Fake. Just being, like, overly dramatic about stuff just just because you know it's gonna be engaging.
Justin:So a great example of this is we were just talking about this this thing up with Adam Wavin. Adam posted this podcast episode. I I recommend everyone go and listen to it.
Brian:It is Heard it this morning.
Justin:It is called we had six months left, and the subheaded header is I just had to lay off some of the most talented people talented people I've ever worked with, and it fucking sucks. This is such a good example of this. Why did this resonate? It's because a founder of a very well known open source project that everybody uses, Tailwind CSS, decided to be raw, vulnerable, and real. And in an ocean of performative tweet boy content, everybody noticed.
Justin:And
Brian:Yeah. And and I mean, just to really put a pin on that, it's like we and others have have done the the honest and build in public thing for a long time. This is what what Adam has been doing with his new solo show has been like taking it to a level that's like because it's We know Adam, so we know he's not full of it. Yeah. Right?
Brian:And also, it's like It's actually some real things happening. Like, it's it's actually it's actually interesting business stories that are playing out in real time. Yeah. It's it's not just sharing stuff about your life just to do it. It's like I he has a very real challenge and a and a real conflict on his hands, and he's and and he's also just being so open.
Brian:I I'm I'm like since he's been posting about it, I've been so taken aback by how transparent he's been about stuff. Like, I've gone to that level of transparency.
Justin:I'm almost a little sad that now that podcast blew up because it was like it felt like our little secret before. Like, you know, there wasn't that many people listening, and so he could be so open and transparent. And
Brian:now But, you know, I and I think he tweeted about this today. He the aftermath of releasing that episode, like, it it actually materially changed his business.
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:You know? And it and it's and that's ongoing right now. But, like, you know, donations, partnerships, you know, interesting conversations. Like, it like, but I don't know what he'll what he'll make public, but, like, it has definitely changed things. And it like, you can't like, I don't know if there's an actual marketing takeaway from that.
Brian:Like, should everyone just go scream from the from the rooftops and find something difficult to talk about and that's the strategy? No. Maybe not. But like
Justin:No. I but I think the marketing strategy is often what people do is they'll be like, what are people what's everybody doing on Twitter? And what's everybody doing in terms of LinkedIn strategy? And what's everybody doing in terms of their marketing website? And and we just end up emulating that the average of what we see out there.
Justin:And my point is, I think the takeaway is, this has always been true, but it's just more true now. It's it's kind of like what Tyler said last year at our first episode in our predictions episode from last year. He's like, listen, the building has never been the hard part. It's been marketing. It's been it's been distinguishing yourself from everything else.
Justin:It's been getting noticed. And that's still true. Yeah. It's just now it's even more true. Like, now Yeah.
Brian:You've gotta keep getting harder. It's it's
Justin:It's more one of my predictions more fish in the sea. It's more surfers trying to catch a wave. It's just we we went from a less crowded beach to a much more crowded beach.
Brian:Since we're on that topic, I mean, that is one of my points that I that I was thinking about as my prediction. This this is no hot take. This is like the most obvious take ever. But but it's what you're saying is I think what is gonna actually make that harder in 2026 is, like, first of all, it it's absolutely true that, like, distribution is still king.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:And it's still like, if if you have a distribution channel, if you if if you have a way to be in front of your ideal customer on a repeated basis every single day and there's a wave of them coming in every day
Justin:Yep.
Brian:Then you're in a good then you're in good shape. That's that's obviously extremely difficult to just develop from nothing if if you don't have that distribution channel. Mhmm. But if you do have it or if you have some unfair advantage or some inroad or some connection or some insight that most people don't have, that is a huge unfair advantage in 2026. But the fact that building got so much easier and and more accessible and I mean, literally over the break, I shipped like two two new apps, Like Yeah.
Brian:Complete apps. Right? So but, like, even, like, you you don't have to be a full stack developer to be able to ship stuff anymore, which means it does it like, I think people mistake this. Yes. You're gonna see a lot more slop out there.
Brian:You're gonna see a lot more Vibe Coded garbage.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:You're gonna see a lot a lot more stupid ideas that don't make good products. Yeah. But what you're also gonna see are all of those people who already have the unfair distribution advantage or already have the unfair niche industry insight of a problem that they can solve. Yeah. Those people are coming into the market now, and they can build their their little app without spending tens of thousands of dollars on that.
Brian:Yep. And so so they are gonna come in with their distribution advantage out of the gate, you know, and then they're just gonna deliver their app. Like and and we already saw that in 2025. People, you know, they they have a distribution channel. They they they then vibe code their MVP.
Brian:They get their thing to a 100 k MRR, and then they build it for real.
Justin:Mhmm. You
Brian:know? Mhmm.
Justin:This is making me think of this is making me think of a drawing. I'm trying to think of how I could so I'll I'll post this in the show notes. But for folks that are watching, here's as you're speaking, I'm just thinking, like, imagine on the left side here, you have this is a software developer that could previously build and ship products. And the line for being able to do that was, let's say, up here. One thing that we haven't never had there's been other moments where this line got dropped.
Justin:Right? Like Ruby on Rails comes around. It makes it much more easy for anyone to build an app. Stripe comes along, drops the bar. You know, this bar keeps getting lowered in terms of opening up new potential creators that could act on it.
Justin:Well, AI let's say there's a group of product people over here that have audiences, that know what an audience wants, that are very good at crafting an experience, like they could breadboard the whole thing, but they can't build it. Well, what does LLMs make possible? Now all of these people are coming online. So instead of you used to just have to compete on this level. The first version of my book was written for these people.
Justin:It was based on this patio 11 quote, which was, listen, developers have the most incredible skill in the world, the most magical skill in the world, which is they can build things. They can imagine something and actually create it out of thin air. That's a magical ability that nobody else in the world has. Well, guess what's happened? This is now there's a whole bunch more people that could potentially have this ability.
Justin:It reminds me of what's happening in in Africa when it comes to filmmaking and making content and making music. So before, the bar for making movies and for making music videos and for making anything was up here because you had to have a lot of money. You had to have the resources. Well, the smartphone comes to Africa and low cost, you know, computers come to Africa. All of a sudden, they're producing all this incredible media.
Justin:Movie full movies shot on the iPhone.
Brian:Like, the talent has always been there. It's just they didn't have the tools. It's just
Justin:latent talent that's just sitting, and now it's getting activated. So this is, in some ways I guess it depends on how you see that. If you look at that and that depresses you,
Brian:then I just think that there's a there's, like, a lot of developers and a lot of SaaS experts out there who are like, oh, you still need a professional SaaS team to to do a to do a quote, unquote real SaaS product. Yes, of course. To maintain a real SaaS product with hundreds or thousands of customers, yeah, you do need real engineers even if they're operating cloud code to build your thing. But you don't need that to build an MVP and ship an MVP that can get you to 10 k MRR or 20 k MRR in in a a couple weeks because you have the connection to that market of people. Like, anyone can do that now.
Justin:Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Brian:So like like that I think I think what that means is, again, it's gonna be harder. I I have some more positive takes for 2026. We can get into them. But I think what I think what it meant years ago was that, like, the bootstrapper can go find the niche industry vertical and dominate it because even the people who are connected to those industries, they can't build anything. But now they can.
Brian:So so that's where it becomes more competitive for the people who have product chops.
Justin:Yes.
Brian:Like, you know.
Justin:Well, let's I wanna get into predictions, but let's talk about what you built over the holidays. I I I Alright. So well I haven't even looked at this yet. This but well, I saw a screenshot, and I was like, man, the design of this looks incredible. But yeah.
Brian:Alright. Well, there's like you know, my stuff kind of moves so fast in terms of, the projects that I work on now that it's it's even hard to talk about it on a podcast. But, like, in terms of, like, the list of things that that have that I've been obsessed about from week to week over the last four weeks, let's see. I I built one I built and shipped one new tool. It's not like customers aren't buying it, but it's for me to use.
Brian:It's it's called inbox summaries. I could talk about that. But what I'm more excited about right now is getting builder methods going in 2026 Mhmm. With a big focus on Cloud Code.
Justin:Okay.
Brian:And doing like a a flagship it's today, I just launched the page for a course that's gonna be called build with Claude Code.
Justin:Okay. That's this is this this is the site that I saw, which looks I love these illustrations, man.
Brian:So the illustrations are a whole I spent a whole week. Oh, man. And I'm I'm gonna do a YouTube video on on that.
Justin:Because did you use AI some sort of AI? You did.
Brian:So Oh my gosh. I'm gonna this is a this literally took me a week of days and nights, like so many hours to get this going. So what for for those listening and not if if you look at the the page for Build with Cloud Code or even any the whole site now has these custom illustrations, but they follow a brand look and feel. They
Justin:they are
Brian:all very consistent. They have a very specific aesthetic. I did a little bit of a brand refresh with the fonts and colors and and branding throughout the site to to work with that. And it took me it I went through multiple phases. So this whole project that I'll describe took about a week, which is I started with, you know, working with Claude to define the visual brand of builder methods.
Brian:And that included, like, creating a visual world. Yes. Like like a professional who's working in their home studio, and they have these tools and coffee and plants and and and there's some other, like, metaphorical images around there.
Justin:And and by the way, this stuff doesn't look like traditional, like, what I would expect from AI image generation. Like, I'm even looking at this detail on the laptop. It has, like, a console screen kind of stylized.
Brian:So I developed it even further. Like, I spent multiple days on really developing these highly detailed documents that describe okay. It it ended up being three documents.
Justin:Okay.
Brian:One document is called the visual the builder method's visual world.
Justin:Okay.
Brian:And that just describes the target customer and the type of objects and characters that you might see across this visual world. Right? So that's number one. Number two is the visual aesthetic. And I went through a long period of like testing out different different images and different artistic styles and different line drawings versus like geometric versus modern versus painting, like, what whatever it might be.
Brian:So went through lots of different sample images and stuff and then kind of zeroed in on this idea of, like, a minimal, like, hand drawn idea with, like, a rough sketch look. And but even that goes into, like, a lot of written detail about, like, how thick the line should be, what level of detail, like, how how which specific colors should be used and where and when.
Justin:Brian, this is the course I want. I wanna I wanna I wanna know how you did this.
Brian:So so then and then, like, the next piece of it is how do we come up with ideas for what to illustrate. Right? Mhmm. So the third document is, like, idea to what is it? Like, I like, idea to illustration mapping.
Brian:Right? And it's like, given the visual world and given the types of topics and content that I publish at Builder Methods, whenever I go into my I'll I'll tell you how I ended up executing this. But, like, whenever I submit, like, hey, I'm doing a blog post about how to use Cloud Code skills. Or here's the whole transcript from this video. Right?
Brian:I need an illustration for it. I don't also I also don't wanna be the one to direct like, alright, this needs to be a picture of a laptop with a coffee mug. Mhmm. I I want the AI to come up with that idea for me based on what it knows about the visual world that is supposed to be the brand. Right?
Brian:So so so it has a whole system for, like, taking my content and understand and and and pitching ideas for what the illustration should be. Okay. So then so then I I spent multiple days trying to do an n eight n automation workflow where I can just put a chat into into a Slack channel and say, like, I need a new illustration. Here's the blog post or here's the video or whatever it is. And I rigged up this whole thing.
Brian:It connected to, like, Google Gemini and OpenAI and connected this n eight it's super complex n eight n workflow. Spent multiple days working with Claude to to get that all rigged up and ton of conditional logic and communication back and forth. And it it technically worked, but the results of the output, like, just did not follow those guidelines that I just talked about. Right? I and and so I was, like, really, like, kind of pissed.
Brian:Like, I I spent so many late nights trying to get that to work. And then I made it a ClaudeCode skill. I did this in, like, twenty minutes. And so I ditched the n eight n complex workflow idea, and I just had ClaudeCode create a ClaudeCode skill that has those guidelines built into it. It connect it it it wrote up a Python script that that calls Google Gemini to to generate the image following my guidelines.
Brian:It has a couple of prompts back to me like, alright, what which color are we using for this one? What's the format? What's the context on the page where it's going to fit? It's gonna pitch some some illustration ideas to me. I say, let's go with option b.
Brian:It illustrates option b. Gives me a couple of options to choose from, and it works beautifully as a Claude code. And what what's really interesting as Wait.
Justin:Is is this something that you're gonna be able to share? Is this something that other people can replicate for themselves? Is this gonna be a part of design OS?
Brian:So what this what this is actually really interesting because and I'm gonna do a YouTube video on this, I I think, hopefully by next week. Yeah. This is not an actually an application. It's like just Claude code alone. Right?
Brian:So so I have a little project on my on my local machine, and it's basically an empty project. There there's no code base in this project. Yeah. It's just a folder with a Claude folder, with a skills folder, with a custom skill that I that I called, like, Builder Methods Brand Illustrator.
Justin:Yes.
Brian:And so whenever I need an illustration, I just open this project and I talk to Claude Code, and I say, give me an illustration for this landing page. Yeah. And then it and then it creates it and puts it in a folder using that Python script. So it's like so it's a really interesting use case for Claude Code where it's like Claude Code doesn't have to help me build an app. Claude Code itself can be the app.
Justin:Can be the app. Yeah. You know? But in this case, I would pay you right now for access to that skill file so I can just plop it in and start using it.
Brian:Yeah. I mean, yes. Like, you could, but then your illustrations would look exactly like mine
Justin:on building methods. Maybe the app is you like, maybe and maybe this is Design OS. You walk me through a process where the end result is it generates the the skill file for me that then becomes you know, then I can start using I
Brian:mean, just thinking back on this project that I described, like, the creation of the skill, which was created by Claude, that took, like, literally fifteen minutes. Yeah. But the it was the development of those guidelines that I spent days on.
Justin:Yes.
Brian:You know? The the brand visual world and the visual aesthetic. Like and there's a lot of testing out ideas and and running prototypes in Google Gemini to see how it does with this idea. And and do I like that? And and is this unique and distinctive enough?
Brian:And and I went through Dribbble and and found, like, some sample illustrations to train it on.
Justin:Is is that something that you can yeah. I'm okay. So that's fascinating to me, I think.
Brian:So anyway, like, that that was, like, a thing that I spent way too much too many hours on, a huge rabbit hole, but I but I'm actually happy with the end result, finally.
Justin:Looks incredible. And and folks listening, this will be in the show notes under build with Claude code.
Brian:So but the the Claude code thing as a course I wanna talk about because this is where I feel like I changed my focus or priorities as I head into January. I don't know. I don't remember if I talked about this or not, but, like, back in December, my thinking as I was turning the corner was like, okay. Builder methods is pretty much working. I've got a good thing going.
Brian:I think I just need to expand my funnel. Right? I think I just need to keep doing YouTube videos. And now I wanna cross post my videos to LinkedIn, and I wanna do more of, like, maybe I'll test out some ads funnels. Maybe I'll just do more workshops.
Brian:And just more double down, like, just keep doing the thing I'm doing. Right?
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:I I think everyone is noticing this. I'm definitely noticing this. There is a an observable change that has happened in our industry, And it happened around December, and it's coming here into January, where it's it's it's definitely an adoption bump up. Yeah. There've been a lot of people who used AI throughout 2025, but all of those people who were holding out as of December, they're like, nope.
Brian:I'm coming around now.
Justin:Yep.
Brian:I'm in. Like, DHH is probably the the biggest known one.
Justin:Just noticed that the other day.
Brian:Yeah. You know? But, like, not just him. It's like everyone. It's like if you've been using AI, you you leveled up to using it if if you were using AI 50 or 70% of the time, now you're using it a 100% of the time.
Brian:Yeah. If you were using AI 10% of the time, now you're using it 75% of the time. Like, is coming on board. And I I think Opus 4.5, which dropped back in November, has a big part of that. It it is an absolutely incredible model in terms of its capability.
Brian:I I don't think it was apparent, like, the day it dropped, but now that we're two, three months out, it's like, oh, man, this thing is so good. And I think that's what led to a lot of people coming around. So what that means is, like, as I sit here in January, I I'm looking at Twitter every day, and I'm seeing every single person tweeting about how they are using Claude code Mhmm. And how they are discovering all of these unique and special workflows with it. Yeah.
Brian:And how they everyone is becoming an expert with it, which is fantastic. Everyone should be finding their own way way to use these tools.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:I just think that I'm not doing a good enough job of meeting the demand wave that is
Justin:That's happening.
Brian:Really start that is really starting to kick up right now. Yeah. Builder Methods Pro, what I have in there is a good start, but it is nowhere near what it needs to be in terms of delivery of of value. Yeah. So And and and Claude Code specifically, as a topic, as a tool, like, I I have to have, like, the definitive if if you are interested in building with Cloud Code, and the vast, vast majority of people in our industry now are like, yes, cursor is very popular and there's other popular tools.
Justin:Mhmm. Cloud Code one.
Brian:Anybody who's serious is obsessed with Cloud Code right now. Yeah. I am. You know? And I I just I just think that, like, I I to me, I I feel like I have an obligation to this business of builder methods and to the market where it's like, I want anybody who is excited about using Cloud Code, maybe a little bit new to Cloud Code, or maybe they just wanna have the shortcut to being a power user with it.
Brian:Mhmm. I want them to say, like, yeah, I should really get in on on Builder Methods Pro because because there's a pretty solid Cloud Code course in there, and it's up to date.
Justin:Yeah. I think you're right. You know? I think this is something I noticed too. It's like, yes, there are people like me who are using Cursor, but most of the developers I know are using Claude code.
Justin:And there also seems to be this feeling of, like, Claude code, the CLI. There's something special about how they've implemented that that you don't get when you're accessing it through, you know, something like Cursor.
Brian:Yeah. I think there are a lot of little things. I mean, I use Cursor. I use Clog code in Cursor. Like, that's that's my motive.
Brian:But but, you know, the more people that I talk to and and I like, on this Builder Methods podcast I've been doing, much more more people now, including myself, are not touching the codebase anymore.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:And that's a big change. I mean, it used to be like, I used to be sort of like fifty fifty, you know? Yeah. I would I would go into the IDE. I would I would edit some files.
Brian:Most of the time, I'd have Cloud Code build stuff. But now it's like 100, every little change where even it's like the decline of the IDE. There's a lot of people now. And these are full stack developers who have hand coded stuff for years. They are actually ditching the code editor.
Brian:They're just building in in, like, iTerm or or their terminal, whatever it is. You know?
Justin:Yeah. I think this is also it's it's such a great time for it because people do have these questions. Like, they might have heard even about, like, you know, you gotta get yourself a Claude plan, and you gotta put that in your root directory. And I think if someone had heard about that and had done that six months ago, they're now coming back in 2026, and they're going, okay, I haven't really used Claude code. I I know I got you.
Justin:Is that old stuff I know? Is that still true? What's so, like, I'm looking
Brian:at It's this a big challenge, honestly. And and there's a lot of there is a lot of features or there's, like, probably four or four or five features core features in Cloud Code that have a ton of overlap with each other. Like, sub agents or skills or the Cloud MD file or slash commands. Like, when when should you use this versus that? And that's a hard question because, like, a lot of them can do more or less the same thing with some some, you know, trade offs.
Brian:Yeah. Sort of on the same subject, and I recorded the video the the YouTube video for this next thing, which is coming out next week. And this this this part feels a little bit risky to me, but I feel like I have to do it. I have no choice, which is and I'm seeing this already out there. There's a sentiment and there and it is is that the frameworks, the third party frameworks, like Agent OS and like the many others that are just like it, they are less relevant and overkill and probably not useful in 2026.
Brian:And there I have updates coming to AgentOS that will that will make it more lightweight and useful in certain in in the in the the ways that people are using it. But but I I have a big video coming out that the headline is like Claude code in 2026 is all you need. Just pure vanilla Claude code.
Justin:Yeah. Before you go that content. In the same way that you were like, man, it'd be great to hear what you changed your mind on in terms of marketing and developers. That's a great one. Like, hey, I know this was just 2025, but I've changed my mind on this is
Brian:pretty powerful changed my mind. I feel like this is where I feel it's a little bit risky to to do that. But I but I've been feeling like discomfort in, like, having and maintaining and supporting Agent OS. Mhmm. I I get new people coming into the Discord every day.
Brian:They're excited about using it. But I'm like, yeah, I don't I don't really use it that much anymore because I just use plan mode. Yeah. You know? So but the this gets a little bit to like sort of what Adam was saying.
Brian:Obviously, his is a totally different situation, but a lot of my traffic on Builder Methods is accessing the docs for Agent OS. A lot of people joining Builder Methods Pro, they're coming because they wanna have direct support from the guy who created AgentOS. You know? So I am trying to actively pivot to I don't want Builder Methods to be built around agent OS specifically as a product because I don't think it has legs long term. I'd rather and the whole idea for Builder Methods is to be the place to get training and and the place to have community with other builders.
Justin:Yeah. That's
Brian:have to sort of, like, plant my flag and and just be totally honest and authentic. Like, this this stuff is moving fast. And Mhmm. Yeah. I have one of the popular frameworks out there, but I'll be the first to say, like, you don't really need a framework for most things these days.
Brian:You know?
Justin:Yeah. I I'm just looking at I just looked up builder methods in Ahrefs, and agent OS is a big keyword for sure. But there's still opportunity there. And to be able to recognize it is yeah. There I think the other thing is that there are people on the cutting edge.
Justin:You are on the cutting edge. You have had this realization that, you know, stuff like Agent OS is now yesterday's, you know, news. However, there's still so many people catching up. Like, they're they're still on chapter one and you're on chapter 10, and they're just reading chapter two, chapter three. So they there the traffic may kind of slowly decrease.
Justin:But the emotion or the desire behind that traffic is still there, which is how do I get my project set up properly? Can somebody help me with that? And sounds like this is where the course is gonna fit in.
Brian:Exactly. And I think that's part of the motivation for doing the course is that like if somebody is coming to Claude Code as new person, it is very easy to be overwhelmed with like, oh, if if if I'm new to building with AI or or maybe you're you're not new to building, but you're new to using Cloud Code, it's easy to come into this and think like, oh, there's this whole ecosystem of these frameworks of these these agent OSs and these other things that that have all these, like, swipe files of sub agents and commands that I like, oh, this person is listing a a list of a 100 commands. Do I do I need to copy those into my project? What do I do with those? What do they all do?
Brian:Mhmm. You know? And it's easy to be, like, so overwhelmed with all that extra bloat. But my advice to those people is, like, just ignore all that noise. Ignore Agent OS.
Brian:Just learn the core workflow, which is spec driven development, and you can do most of that with Cloudco. You know, what's amazing is that, like, I I built and released the first version of Agent OS back in, like, June 2025 with which essentially created specs, which are like plans. Mhmm. It had the agent interview you to make those specs, like clarifying questions. It broke the the the spec out into to do lists and then delegated to sub agents.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:And, like, all of those things turned into Claude code features. They have plan mode. They have ask user questions. They have Mhmm. To do lists.
Brian:Like, it it does those things out of the box. You you are generally better off do and I firmly believe spec driven development is the way to I'm constantly doing spec doing plan mode. But, you know and and, like, there there are little unique aspects about Agent OS that I I have an update coming coming to it, like the ability to manage profiles. So if your team is working on different projects and you have different project knowledge that that you need to sort of pass around and and change from project to project, it it's really good at that and, like, injecting those standards into your Mhmm. Into your agents, into your prompts, into your CloudMD.
Brian:So there's gonna be some tooling, especially for teams. And and I think that the other the other thing that AgentOS helps with still is, like, making sense of legacy code bases Mhmm. And documenting the legacy code base knowledge into these standards. Yep. That's where AgentOS is actually very helpful.
Brian:And I think a lot of the people using it are you know, they they use it for that sort of thing. But designing and building like greenfield, like new product stuff, like that's where like, yeah, DesignOS probably helps with the design side of that, but the the most of the builds can happen in pure Cloud Code in
Justin:my opinion. Why I think this is perfect. I think this is a great fit for your overall offering. And when you think about it, with it moving so fast, the real benefit of Builder Methods Pro is I'm connected to Brian, and Brian's on top of it. Like, I'm gonna be able to catch up because Brian's gonna be able to say, hey, listen.
Justin:Just ignore everything you've heard for the past six months. I I can save you all that pain. Just like, let me teach you the basics right now. And I noticed that the call to action is this is this Claude code course is included in your Builder Methods Pro membership. So this is just another reason to join.
Brian:And I just remember that, like, I I pushed that page live today, but I forgot to
Justin:write the coming soon label on it. Oh. So
Brian:I I should probably do that because there I didn't I didn't create any of the course content yet. That's the
Justin:problem that's the problem with shipping so fast is that we're
Brian:I know.
Justin:Yeah. We're yeah. I you know, we were gonna go get into some predictions for 2026. I'm kind of feeling like we should because we've already gone an hour. I think we should save it.
Justin:Do think you we should save it, or do you think we should just do it?
Brian:I think we should if you have time, I mean, I I think we should hit a couple of them. Okay. Because next week, I think we're gonna have a guest.
Justin:Oh, yeah. Next week, we're gonna okay.
Brian:So So Yeah. Listen. Do like, what's what's on the top of your mind? Any any anything?
Justin:Well, the big thing I I wanna I I think I kind of communicated that the the big one for me is just that one thing that's gonna happen in 2026, and it's already happening, is just like I said, that ocean of people that are trying to do what you're doing is about to get a lot bigger. There's gonna be a lot more competition, and standing out is going to be key. And I the the question is whether you can teach people to stand out, and I think you can. And the the one example I wanna point to is the Acquired podcast just had their ten year anniversary. And they somehow got Michael Lewis, the author of Moneyball, to interview them for their ten year anniversary episode.
Brian:Oh, I gotta hear that.
Justin:It is fantastic. But what emerges is the story of two guys from Seattle in a in an ocean of content. You know, there's tons of people publishing content on YouTube and tons of people publishing content on podcasts. They started ten years ago making kind of mediocre content. Like, can go back and listen to episode one.
Justin:They were doing, like, you know, maybe, I don't know, five to six episodes a month or something. Like lots of episodes, trying to do what everyone else was doing, trying to get traditional advertisers like Casper mattresses and all that stuff. And then in 2022, they tell this story about how the advertising market crashed. David had just gone full time on the podcast, and they lost 40% of their revenue. This isn't that long ago.
Justin:This is like four years ago. And they kind of decided to kind of pull back and go, okay, what's going on here? And everybody else's response was to get more competitive. They're like, we just got to keep doing what we're doing. We got to just publish more episodes, get more impressions so we can get more, you know, advertisers.
Justin:And their answer was like, you know what? No. We're going to figure out what we are uniquely good at and how we can produce something that is an n of one. Nobody else is going to be able to do this. And that was the turning point.
Justin:That's when
Brian:we started smart. Getting
Justin:their episodes on the NFL, Costco, where they were taking a whole month to research and do all of this stuff. And then they produce one three hour episode at the end of the month. This is the start of that strategy. And then they also talk about how they changed their monetization strategy from what the whole other industry is doing, which is CPMs. Right?
Justin:You get paid $25 per thousand downloads. And they said, we're not gonna do that anymore. We're gonna go back to our best sponsors and get them to adopt this new model, which, by the way, is on their website. If you click on their website, you can see what they're charging for this coming season. And a feature sponsorship, I think, a presenting sponsorship for the next season, 2027.
Justin:They're already sold out for 2026. For the twenty twenty seven spring season, presenting sponsorship is $2,750,000. Damn. That's that's what it costs to to sponsor four episodes of Four episodes? Four episodes.
Justin:Because the other thing they've done is gradually decrease how many episodes in the season. A mid roll ad is $1.1900000.0, basically. Woah.
Brian:Holy crap. I did not realize they were doing that kind of number. Like, I I knew they were huge, but, like and and this is oh, man. And and this is, like, right into one of my predictions as well. But that's incredible.
Justin:Yeah. So I think this is the story. This is the message I'm going to be talking about in marketing for developers is humans are pack animals. Like, we're always like trying to replicate what other people doing. And, you know, at the beginning I
Brian:know what's different.
Justin:Like, you can you can emulate somebody to learn. But the difference between people that really pull away from the pack are those that get past that emulation stage and start to identify ways that they can be an n of one. What can we uniquely do? What are we going to bring? And it doesn't always work.
Justin:You know, that was a bet that might not have worked out for them. But it's the folks that make those kinds of bets are typically the ones who end up having some sort of success.
Brian:Man. And that is so I wanna talk about the media in 2026. But on that thing about finding your unique advantage and your your unique mode and being different, like, this is what stresses this is what what is really stressing me out about social media and Twitter right now. I I didn't used to get as stressed about it as as, like, probably like you have and other have other people have in the past year or two. But for me now, it's like I don't know.
Brian:And maybe it's part of, like, doing this builder methods business, which which I'm now in this, like now I'm like an educator, and and I'm a and I'm a communicator. Right? So but I feel like I'm not very good as a Twitter person. I I just don't have as much success on I I enjoy Twitter as a to to connect with friends and to follow people and to and to tweak snarky things whenever I want to, like, whatever's on my mind. But I'm not good at and I don't mean, like, the the the tweet boy thing, but just being, like, more active
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:And and more like like, I don't tweet very much about Cloud Code or about AI strategies or this or that. Like, yeah, I mention it sometimes, but, like, I don't if you look at my feed right now, I don't have any There's nothing strategic out there. There's probably not a lot that's like super valuable. What I do do is YouTube videos. Like, that's where I'm connecting with my actual audience, and that's working for me, and I'm I'm doing that.
Brian:So I now I feel this, like, pressure of, like, do I need to change my Twitter game? Do I need to build systems to help me tweet more faster? Like, because there am I am I gonna be you know, and there's like this feeling of like, maybe I'm feeling threatened by other people being the experts on Twitter when like, I'm the one trying to sell a Claude code course.
Justin:Like Yeah.
Brian:But then I I try to remind myself like, well, maybe Twitter is just not my mode. Like, that doesn't have to be me. I could just use Twitter how I always have and just stick to YouTube. You
Justin:know? Yes.
Brian:I don't know.
Justin:I think this is like knowing yourself is gonna be another kind of big one. Because clearly, some people mean, you can learn skills, but this is something that Lars Lofgren and I have talked about forever. Because, you know, someone would ask us, like, what makes a great marketer? Like, what are the attributes of a great marketer? And he would say, well, it really depends.
Justin:Like, look at Justin. He's a completely different marketer than I am, but he's been successful with his mix of strengths and weaknesses. Yeah. And he employs them very differently than than I do. And I think that is the point is like, where again, this is the end of one.
Justin:Where can I win where other people can't? And, you know, some people like Adam Wavin, he just saw Twitter, and he's just like, I can do this. Like, this is and then he taught it to Steve Shoger, and it worked for Steve as well. Some people just have an affinity for certain things, and that's fine. The key is to go
Brian:think it's that short form and short form text thing that I just can't no matter how much I try to have Claude Code write tweets for me, can't do it I much more resonate with Rand Fishkin and his his style going back many years of like the you know, doing like the Whiteboard Fridays and like Mhmm. Like, I really like, in terms of content creation, that idea of spending a week just going deep on a topic and, like, editing and editing and making and making sure what I'm saying, like, really hits the right tone. And I and I and I make the right points, and I frame it the right way, and then finally, like, release the video for this thing that I worked on for a week or multiple weeks, you know, like, rather than, like, the spur of the moment tweet. Like, I just can't be be valuable in that mode.
Justin:Yeah. Although this does bring up another prediction for me, which is I think partnerships are going to become way more important twenty twenty six and beyond. Because if if before it was like an individual so yes, in some ways, being an individual contributor now with Claude Code makes you so much more magical. But it's unlocking those things that you don't have individually that might make the difference to rise above the noise, like Adam Wathen, Steve Shoger. That's an example of a co founder.
Justin:But there's other examples of just not necessarily making someone a co founder, but partnering up with them. So in your case, maybe there's someone great on Twitter, and you're just like, oh, you know what? Maybe I'll make them an affiliate. Or maybe I can maybe there's some way to partner that will help me activate that channel or that mode that I can't get into.
Brian:That is a really good one. I I just they're not new as a customer and a partner, but, like, they they started promoting Clarity working with this partnership thing, and they they have really done a pretty good job of bringing bringing a new wave of customers into Clarity Flow. That's been pretty good.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:I got a couple of points here that are, you know, more tech world culture. Okay. I wanna hear them.
Justin:Oh, I might have responses to these. I haven't heard these. Okay. Let's go.
Brian:Well, one one sort of picks up on where you left off with talking about the acquired thing and and just in general and and then talking about those numbers that they're doing. Mhmm. And this this one is probably pretty obvious, but I I just think that what people call the new media, so podcasts and YouTube and stuff Yeah. Will just become the media
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:In 2026. Yeah. The traditional media, the the big news organizations, television, newspapers, you know, unfortunately, like true traditional journalism Mhmm. That'll that'll be around. But, like, I think it's already becoming pretty irrelevant, and we obviously saw that in the last US election.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:You know? I mean, literally, Trump went on Rogan and Kamala Harris did not. And, like, like, I I actually my my view is, like, that that is, like, one not just that one podcast, but in general, just embracing of the new media. And, like and then you just look at the sheer numbers of these I mean, compare even just acquired podcast or any of these podcasts. They are doing millions upon millions of views and subscribers.
Brian:And compared to, like like, NBC News, like, they might do, like, a million on their biggest night. Like like, they're they're they're not touching the numbers that YouTubers are are and and the major podcasters are doing.
Justin:Or I mean, the downside of this is that there's gonna be a ton more people doing terrible journalism. The upside is that there are, like, independent publications doing great journalism. And, I mean, this is one of the reasons that Transistor was excited to do this partnership with Ghost is that they Ghost just released this explorer.ghost page. And we noticed a bunch of our customers on this page. And a lot of these folks are doing incredible journalism.
Justin:Like, four zero four Media is doing great journalism. The Lever is doing great journalism. Tangle, which I'm a subscriber to, 637,000 subscribers. Like, that's a massive email. It's still indie, but great journalism.
Justin:And
Brian:I think especially for, like, world news and, like, and, like, war and and stuff like that, like, you you that's that's where I personally, like, rely on, you know, big, you know, well funded news organizations. Like, people who can literally have a journalist on the ground in a war zone, you're not gonna see a podcaster there. You know? And and so, yeah, I I I think there's always a value for that. But I just think that, like, absolutely in any any next elections, like, it's gonna be about the the YouTube and podcast game and and so much less about the televised.
Justin:Yeah. For for better and for worse.
Brian:And and and I don't think it's just politics. I think it I think it's it's across the board. Like, I'm a big sports fan. And even like, there there's a general yeah. Like, I watch a bunch of ESPN, but, like, it's that's sort of not the best place to tune into sports
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:Anymore. It's it's the independent takes on both local and and national. Like, I I like and and then it's like, well, who's actually independent? Like, is is the ringer independent? They they were bought by Spotify.
Brian:Yeah. But, like, it it still has that, like, new media vibe. You know?
Justin:Yeah. I I think there'll probably be an interplay between those. Like, there'll be fewer kind of bigger institutional media organizations. And
Brian:And, like, like, tech too. Like like, you know yeah. Like, Bloomberg will cover tech. We'll cover, like, the latest iPhone. And and, yeah, like, that guy, Gurman, always gets these these scoops.
Brian:But, like, John Gruber, Ben Thompson Mhmm. What's his name? Marcus m k I always forget his name.
Justin:D b k?
Brian:Yeah. It's like you know, like, stuff like that. Like like, that's where I go to to stay up on on tech.
Justin:You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna get how come I can't think of his name?
Brian:I got a couple more I'll throw into here.
Justin:Just some yeah. Keep going.
Brian:We we talked a bunch about AI. We can get back to that later. Actually, all all three of my the things are AI. Alright. One one of them is OpenAI and ChatGPT is gonna fade away in terms of, quote, unquote, being a in the leadership position.
Brian:Maybe it's not even that anymore. But, like, people normies and everyone still thinks of, like, ChatGPT as a massive player.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:Like, the massive players obviously are, like, ChatGPT, Anthropic, Google.
Justin:Yeah. Grok.
Brian:Everything else is like yeah. Grok, but that's still like a a a far fourth place. It's it's really those three. Google, Anthropic, and ChatGPT. And so again, this is not a super hot take, but I think that OpenAI is going to not totally figure out their they're still trying to figure out their business.
Brian:They're popular, but they have not figured out their their winning strategy yet. I don't think that they're gonna figure it out in 2026. Now they have billions upon billions of funding, so they're not gonna just go away. Mhmm. But I I do think that Google will win the consumer, and Anthropic, I think, has already won business.
Justin:Yeah. This is gonna be so interesting. Like, on the consumer side, ChatGPT is the brand. It it feels like the Google of LLMs. But it'll be interesting because I have noticed myself more just asking those kinds of questions in Google search and just getting their AI answer and then chatting with that AI answer.
Brian:Every normie in my life, I say like, are you using AI today? And they say like, well, when when I Google something, Google gives me AI.
Justin:Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I hear
Brian:that answer all the time.
Justin:Interesting.
Brian:You know? They don't even call it Gemini. They're just like, I don't know. Whatever whatever Google tells me. I guess that's AI.
Justin:Yeah. The You know? The surprising thing the bull case for ChatGPT and the bear case for Google is that Google is not great at software. So even like I'm thinking about one of the benefits of ChatGPT is it starts to learn about you. It starts to you have all your chats in there.
Justin:You might Yeah.
Brian:As like a product, Google
Justin:is not very The the one thing I do all the time, I don't know if other people do this, but I'll find a recipe in ChatGPT that I like, and I'll just keep going back to my chats searching for chicken, and then it pulls up all the chicken recipes. And Google doesn't have like, when I'm chatting in Google search, it doesn't have that feel of like, oh, it's learning about me, and I can go back to these and, you know, I have projects. And
Brian:That is the thing. Like, as a consumer, like, in my personal life, I still use ChatGPT for all my life stuff. So, like, health questions, and and it's it is my replacement for Google search a lot of the times and ask give me a fun funny joke to tell my kids. Like, I I go to ChatGPT for that stuff. Yeah.
Brian:See, like, the I think the challenge for Google is is they're they're not very good at product.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:You know? Like, Google has Gemini. Like, they have like, if you log into Gemini, that is a ChatGPT competitor. So you could get all those same things. It's just like hard to find Gemini.
Brian:Like, where do I log in to go to it? And then like Google has like all these, like, I did a tweet about this. Like, it's like they literally have like 15 different AI products.
Justin:Yes.
Brian:You know? Like, there's, like, Nano Banana. There's there's ImageGen. There's Vio.
Justin:There's, like If you search for Nano Banana, like, if you're like, I wanna use Nano Banana, the top search results are not Google's Nano Banana project. It's other people using Nano Banana as
Brian:It's insane, dude. Terrible. Like, just like, I I was talking about that illustration project I I did for Builder. Like, it took me literally, like, a while just to figure out, like, alright. How do I just get the best image generation model?
Brian:What is it called? Where is it? Where do I go? What do I sign up for? It's hard to find it.
Brian:Still, I think that OpenAI is just they're flailing. The Sora thing, like, I I was totally wrong about that. Like, I felt that was gonna take off. That that completely faded away pretty quickly. Yeah.
Brian:I don't know. And and Anthropic, I think, is definitely already winning the business side of things. Absolutely won the coders.
Justin:The consumer side is interesting too because so much of it is dependent on product and how you access it. Like like, I was in a Model Y lately recently, and there's the new I I think just in the newer models, Grok is built in.
Brian:Yeah. We have we have Grok in our car. Yeah.
Justin:And I can't believe I I was surprised at how much we used it. It was just like it was like, hey, Grock. Like, what's you know, tell us about this. You're gonna drive and you're just talking to Grock the whole time. And in terms of a product, I was like, man, that is incredible.
Justin:And then I looked up to see if there was a car Apple CarPlay, you know, a similar thing. And there's not really. It's like
Brian:Apple is completely lost.
Justin:And it's like, man, like but that that's also going to affect like, if, you know, ChatGPT had an incredible CarPlay app that I could talk to while I'm driving.
Brian:Okay. So this is my next prediction.
Justin:Okay. Okay. Okay.
Brian:We're we're we we rolled right into it. This is I I do think that AI adoption by normies is still gonna be slow. I don't I don't know when it will it will have that tipping point where, like, everyone, our our parents, our our friends and family, our non tech friends and stuff like Yeah. They they are just not using AI yet in in any real big way. Mhmm.
Brian:Like, maybe they use it a little bit at work if if their work has some AI thing, but most most workplaces still don't, honestly, unless unless you're really in tech.
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:Like, I I ask my kids all the time, like, is anybody in your school using AI for anything or even talking about it? Yeah. And the answer is no. Like, they're just not.
Justin:Interesting.
Brian:You know? So I think that AI adoption at large for the normies is really going to depend on when there is a huge product that comes along, that becomes the next like, there needs to be the next iPhone scale. When when the iPhone came out
Justin:I was just
Brian:it literally changed the world.
Justin:I mean, I'm
Brian:2,000 I was just thinking about seven was the year that it came out. The world changed because everyone got an iPhone.
Justin:But this seems like the opportunity. So if Apple's dropping the ball when it comes to especially, like, voice and AI. Like, if I could go, you know, talk to Apple's voice agent and say, you know, hey, like, tell me about this. And it could give it to me easily without having to set up anything else or whatever. That would be a a big advantage.
Justin:But they don't have that. What is there a I
Brian:I just think that there there needs to be it's it's even more than a smartphone, and it's also more than just chat. Because, like, there there is already ChatGPT, and there's already Gemini on all the Android phones. So that that hasn't broken through. People dabble with it.
Justin:Yes.
Brian:You know, it's It's gotta be built in now.
Justin:Like, what
Brian:So, like, I I think there there needs to be a totally new paradigm that takes over the world. Right? And and I I wrote down, like, like humanoid robots, but we were just talking about cars. I think that's the other one. Yeah.
Brian:It's like, once cars in a really widespread way have AI that that people are finding genuinely useful.
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:But I also think that, like, robotics too could do this. I don't think this is gonna be in 2026, but I but, like, these are the kinds of things where it's like, oh, this is entering our lives Yeah. In a way that's like it it it just replaces things. Well I I don't know, like, I don't know specifics. I just think like something like that.
Justin:Yes.
Brian:Is gonna take something like that. Because as of today, yeah, I use regular Claude and regular ChatGPT as a thought partner to think through my projects and stuff like that. But the normal people are not doing that yet.
Justin:So Ryan and Chad just brought up the thing I wanted to talk about, which is Johnny Ive is working with OpenAI. There there are other tectonic plates moving right now, which is this iPhone is stressing people out more than it ever has before. Like, people are saying this has disrupted society. I
Brian:I thought you're holding up a
Justin:VHS Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I got my my case as a VHS tape. But, you know, people are stressed out about this.
Justin:Like, my son was even just like, man, he's like, I wish I could just install Linux on my phone so I could get rid of YouTube shorts in the YouTube app because I is there a world where Johnny Ive creates some beautiful device that is in the same category as an iPhone, but maybe the parrot He
Brian:likes to talk about how he's gonna, like, correct his, he's gonna create the anti iPhone.
Justin:Well and people are stressed out about the iPhone. But imagine I mean, people are stressed out about AI too, so maybe this won't work. But imagine a phone that's just continually rewriting itself to to go with your preferences. So you'd be like, hey, hey, OpenAI phone. I want you to rewrite the YouTube app.
Justin:And I don't want to see any Shorts ever. I want you to just eliminate that. And I want you to create a calendar app that does all of this. And
Brian:But but you you, Justin, you are already thinking so many steps ahead of the average person. You're you're thinking as a as a software product person. Like, nobody most people just take the software that they're given.
Justin:You know? Yes.
Brian:Yeah. They're just gonna like, oh, that that's how YouTube works. Nothing I can do about that. Even even if there are things they could do about that, they're not gonna think through, like, a better interface. You know?
Justin:But this is where again, what's interesting is just it feels like stress levels on the phone have really risen. Like, I gave everybody in my family that brick where you can brick your phone.
Brian:Oh, yeah.
Justin:And it's like a physical device. And it's interesting because I I gave it to everybody and they're all like, what is this? And I'm like, well, you know, if you if you find your phone distracting and you're always checking it, you can brick things. And instantly, you could see the light go on. We'll see if they end up doing it.
Justin:But they're like, oh, yeah. My phone is, like, ruining my life in terms of my attention, in terms of everything. So maybe there's a world where I wouldn't count OpenAI out be just because this is how I see it. I see you got OpenAI has a lot of consumer recognition. You got Google, who also has a big consumer footprint, but they're shitty at product.
Justin:They're just so terrible at it. Then you've got Claude, which is mostly for developers. And then you've got Grok, which I think is interesting in that it's actually the best voice experience I've ever had, which was in the Tesla. I just couldn't believe how often we were using it. It was just like, oh, hey.
Justin:Hey, Grock. Hey, this. Hey, this. So the The
Brian:thing with Grock is that I think the I think you're right, but, like, the problem is that it's Elon Musk
Justin:Yes. Yeah.
Brian:At this point. And he really I don't know what happened to him over the last couple years, but he completely became crazy.
Justin:I mean yeah.
Brian:And it and it has, like, obviously, like, clear impact on Tesla's sales. So, like, even if Tesla comes out with the robots that they're working on
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:And even if they're fantastic, people are just not gonna buy them because it's Elon.
Justin:Yeah. You know? Okay. Let's let's do you got any more? Let's let's let's finish them out while we got them.
Brian:But I I had one more one additional thought to think through.
Justin:Okay.
Brian:Well, just my other one was just like that, like, AI in music and TV will not be a thing.
Justin:Okay.
Brian:Or and it won't be significant.
Justin:I think I think it will, actually. I think we're gonna see there's a big uproar over commercials made with AI. And, you know, I think Coca Cola
Brian:I could see it being in commercials. Yeah. But I just mean, like, the best music albums that people really love and resonate with, And probably the same with, like, the best films. And I'm sure there will be some some TV shows that are AI generated, but, like, I think the best of the best ones will still be human written.
Justin:The the only difference with music is I can see all background music and, like, kind of vibe music and, like, easy listening, you know, that I think there's a world
Brian:Totally that whole industry is
Justin:kind of screwed. Yeah. I think that one is like I I even want that right now. Like, I used to go to SoundCloud for that for, like, these kind of, like, like, electronic, like, just but if there was an AI that could just produce that music for me automatically depending on what I'm doing on my computer and automatically adjust it for me, I think I would probably just use that.
Brian:But I I I mean, I personally think the most about music. I I write music. I create it. I I like to record it. But also, I I'm a huge fan of bands, and I'm a fan of the best songwriters.
Brian:And I'm also a fan of going to see bands live. Mhmm. And there's the live experience. And when I and when I love a song or an album
Justin:Yep.
Brian:I I also want to experience the live version of that, which is different than the studio version.
Justin:Totally agree.
Brian:So that is completely human.
Justin:Totally agree. Totally agree. I think for for that kind of music, again, we just we're talking about how do you rise above the noise. It's gonna be the same for musicians and and art, frankly. And one of the ways you rise above the noise is you give them an experience.
Justin:Yeah. And it's it's just gonna be more true of what was already true. Right? Like, the best bands already knew this. It's like we're we give our fans an experience when they come to see us.
Justin:We create albums that are creative and interesting and unexpected. They're not mediocre or average.
Brian:Yeah. My last one is not a prediction. It's more of a question.
Justin:Okay.
Brian:I was just thinking about this today. Because I'm thinking back on the year of 2025 and and this tran transition, this this transition in adoption. Yeah. And we have seen a massive, massive shift. I I like, obviously, I keep talking about it with what I'm doing with builder methods.
Brian:So, like, you know, this is like coming back to our industry, the the tech, the the coders, the the builders. Right? But I wanna extrapolate that out to the rest of the world. Right? So if I think about myself, the way that I build software is 110% different today than it was twelve months ago.
Brian:Mhmm. Like, about it, every step in the process is different. Yeah. If I go back to January 2025, I probably would have been skeptical of the idea that, like, I would build an entire app and not hand code a single line in that app. You know, like, I I would have been skeptical of that statement twelve months ago.
Brian:And and that is just absolute reality today. Like, I definitely shipped complete apps without touching a line of code. So if if there was that much of a shift and and I mean, that that means so many things. That that means not only the models got a lot better, the tooling got a lot better, but also my personal trust.
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:I've changed my behavior to like, in a way that is super significant. Right?
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:So what kind of jump are we going to see in the next twelve months like that? That's the question is like, what can we not even fathom
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:Would be true twelve months from now, where twelve months from now, we're gonna be like, oh, yeah.
Justin:What are we
Brian:not seeing now? Percent.
Justin:That will be clear in retrospect?
Brian:Yeah. And like and and I think it'll even go beyond just coding and stuff. That that's where it could bleed into, like, the normie stuff. So, like, like, I I still think that, like, as much as we got into, like, agents in general, like how you can have an agent go go off and do a task that's, like, pretty beefy.
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:I still, like, I still feel like we haven't even scratched the surface on that. You know? Like Right now, have a list of 10 ShinyObject apps app ideas that I wanna build. And I know that really all I actually need is a full day and I could build it with Cloud Code and
Justin:stuff. I
Brian:think that we're gonna be at a time pretty soon where, like, literally just jotting down the note or voice noting the note Mhmm. Could be enough to kick off agents to plan and design and build and deploy and test and, like Yeah. Here you go. Here's that app. What do you think?
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:Still have Right now, we still have to manage the process a little bit. Don't know. There's other things like think this
Justin:is actually gonna become the problem, which is the the kind of bountiful version of the future is that there's gonna be so much more code being written. And so many more people are going to be like more software will mean more people need to be employed to manage those projects and those companies and those customer support. And it's just gonna all increase exponentially. And it's going to it's going to benefit everybody. And the thing I'm seeing is just like, this feels like already it's the same problem.
Justin:It's the same build a 100 projects in a year problem, which is I built a 100 projects, but 75 of them have four o fours. 67 of them are getting have errors. 89 of them don't have their tax details updated on Stripe. Like, it just like the problem becomes as more. Yeah.
Justin:And
Brian:I do think that the the the simpler tools and this, you know, we're we're sort of circling back to, like, our software world here. But, like, the the simpler tools like, even now, like, when I have a little need for something, I am very much thinking about, like, well, do I just vibe code that? Or or am I gonna go trial, like, three different project management tools to to see which one sort of kind of fits what I wanna do?
Justin:I mean, we just had to make this decision at Transistor. And it's a very normie decision. So we are a team of six people, but we just need to be able to track when people are taking time off. So there needs to be a calendar updated. There needs to be some form of approval, like, hey, I'm gonna be here.
Justin:Is that okay? And either John or I have to say, yeah, that sounds fine. And we could have vibe coded that. Like, our old system was a Google form that submitted a thing, and then I would manually update a calendar. And I said to Helen, I'm like, maybe we should, you know, we could vibe code this or we could go and buy a and we ended up just buying vacationtracker.io or whatever.
Justin:It wasn't cheap. It was like $500 a year or something like that. And Right. But in my mind, I'm like, the effort and time and then someone's gonna maintain it. And then, you know, I was just like, let's just buy it.
Justin:Somebody's already done it.
Brian:Okay. So that's what I'm talking about. Right? Like, I I totally understand where you're coming from. Like, yeah.
Brian:Like, somebody still has to even vibe coding it, there's still a lot of effort in testing it and troubleshooting it. I get that. Yeah. But twelve months ago, I would have said you're crazy that I would build a whole app and not touch not touch the code. Yeah.
Brian:Twelve months from now, I think that that management layer starts to fall away.
Justin:I think there's still gonna be so many after effects of, like so, you know, I so let's
Brian:say Opus 4.5 is so good now.
Justin:I know. For building, but not for maintaining.
Brian:But twelve months from now, it's gonna be Opus 5.5. We we don't know what that's gonna be. It's gonna be insane.
Justin:It's still gonna I mean, you could be right. You could be right. And we should definitely revisit this in 2027. You could be right. There is a world where you're right.
Justin:What I'm seeing practically, though, is and Transistor is a small company, but we already have this. It's like, you know, I built a few, like, free marketing tools in v zero, and Josh built a few over here, and then we got a few over there. And we had a weird you know, SSL certificate stuff happens all the time. So it's like, for some reason, there's a conflict and Let's Encrypt didn't didn't manually renew it. And so one of those
Brian:Oh, like little stuff like that, especially server level deployment stuff. That's still for me, it's still very manual. Like, that AI hasn't really touched that.
Justin:Yes. And and In
Brian:a big way.
Justin:Even like, let's say that it it can even manage that. But the thing I'm I'm I could see happen even with a small team, but this gets worse with a bigger team. Let's say Helen vibe codes a vacation tracker system, and it works awesome. She goes on vacation for three weeks, and then the system goes down. And we're like, okay.
Justin:Where was that hosted again? Oh, oh, shoot. She put it on her own digital ocean droplet, and she forgot to share the password. Fuck. Okay.
Justin:You know, like, is there's it only takes a
Brian:I guess I have to have Claude code go hack into Helen's account.
Justin:It only takes that to happen a few times where the boss goes, okay. Like, we're gonna have a line. Like so the line used to be if you're gonna build something internally, it was way up here. It had to be pretty important.
Brian:Yeah. Yeah.
Justin:It's definitely lowered. But there are still gonna be managers and leaders and bosses and teams that are like, yes, you could build that. But I'm tired of these things breaking down. I'm tired of them, you know, having security vulnerabilities. I'm tired of you running it on some Raspberry Pi underneath your desk.
Justin:Like, I just want this is the line now. And it's definitely lowered, but it's not it's not on the floor. You know what I mean? Like, there's people are still buying vacationtracker.io or whatever.
Brian:And Yeah. Yeah.
Justin:Yeah. It it
Brian:I'm gonna throw one one more at you, and this one this one could be like more of a cliffhanger for maybe next week, especially given the the the guests that will probably join us next week. Okay. And I just was thinking about this today. I think it's probably true. I'm curious to know your take.
Brian:Bootstrapping, self funding will have a resurgence. Not not that it's been dead, but it's just gonna become way more of the widespread norm for most startups
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:In 2026. And and I think that that probably means that, like, decline of funding in general, funding models in general. I guess there will still be, the big VC stuff. I don't I mean, I know that like some of the like Tiny Seed and like the smaller seed level funds still exist.
Justin:But
Brian:it's hard for me just to think practically about, like, what is the role? Why why would somebody seek funding when building is so easy now? You know? Like
Justin:I think you're right. I think I mean, even the venture capitalists like Marc Andreessen are talking about this right now. They're talking, you know, they're talking about, like, there will be bootstrap solo founder billion dollar businesses now because Yeah. Of AI. So if they're saying it, they're still gonna make their money because they've just moved up the food chain.
Justin:They're just all investing in Yeah. AI companies that are gonna drive it all. But it will
Brian:Or maybe I could even see this the still see the case for the super small fund to allow a bootstrapper to quit their job
Justin:Mhmm.
Brian:And, like, self just just fund the founder, maybe the founders.
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:Right? But you just don't need you just don't need funding to hire a significant team anymore. Mhmm. Like, startups, no matter no matter what level you are of funding, like, in 2026, the the way to build startups is to is to use AI as much as you possibly can.
Justin:And it it just changes so much in terms of like, because you can build so much faster for good and bad, it means you can get paying customers sooner. And I think people will be able to realize right away, does this thing have legs or does this not have legs? In the in the past, you would have been like, ah, we don't really know yet. We need more money so we can build more and all that. But now you're just gonna be like, like, I'll just I'll just build the first version of it.
Justin:And if that vision is attractive enough that people sign up, alright, then I can literally get their feedback and the next day have something new for them and keep going and see if that brings in enough customers. The part where people usually would get funding is like, like, we're just there's a gap between here and here. But if you can get there faster
Brian:And there's a lot of people who traditionally, like, just defaulted to funding. Like, oh, I wanna build a startup, so I guess I need to do funding. Like, there's a lot of people who just totally either weren't aware or just didn't even really consider the idea of self funding. Yeah. Like But I do think that we're gonna enter a phase where it's like that self funding becomes the default.
Brian:Yeah.
Justin:I I think Ryan, though, has a good point, which is funders will probably sorry. Startups will need funding for marketing.
Brian:That's the other thing I was thinking about. But, like, that's also, like, only if you want to go in and try to dominate a market.
Justin:Yeah.
Brian:You know, like, if if you if you have to go into a market and try to compete with obviously, everyone's competing with the big guys to a certain extent. But if you want to take down the big guys, you need to be doing you need to be blanketing ads everywhere.
Justin:You know? I do think that, especially meta, is going to have a blockbuster year. I think there are gonna be way more people building apps, and they're where are they gonna advertise those apps? They're gonna advertise them in Instagram stories. I think that is going to be and that's where if there's an angle for funding small independent startups, my guess is a lot of that will be like, okay.
Justin:Yeah. You've built a product fast, but you need to get distribution. We need to be able to try a bunch of channels and just invest money in channels until we find one that works. And that will be the the arbitrage. It's like whoever gets to the distribution channel first and owns that channel, they're the ones that are gonna win.
Justin:And
Brian:It all comes back to marketing. It all
Justin:comes back to marketing. This is great. Really epic episode. One hour and fifty minutes. We've people have been sticking around in live chat for the whole time.
Justin:Shout out to everybody in the chat. This was really fun. And yeah.
Brian:Yeah. Good. Good kickoff for 2026.
Justin:That's right. Join us next week. I think we're gonna have special guests. So we're staying true to the panel format.
Brian:We'll still call it the panel.
Justin:Thanks, everybody.
Brian:See you guys next week.
Justin:Talk to later. Bye.