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Jordan and Brian unpack two MicroConf talks from Rob and Einar that frame the new reality of SaaS: faster building, faster competition, and more ways for products to get displaced. They then get practical about what that means for product strategy, pricing, annual billing, and where AI can actually help a small business stay durable. Timestamps: 00:00: Intro and Rob’s MicroConf talk 03:30: Should founders be more paranoid? 06:17: Einar’s moat talk and what makes software valuable 10:13: Where services and productized services fit 13:46: Josh Pigford’s AI service model 17:26: Giving Grokbot recurring jobs 20:21: Claude does the work, Grokbot runs the pipeline 23:45: Getting bot output ready for quick approvals 27:20: Keeping marketing going between launches 33:10: Getting out of your head by building something 36:22: Jared’s A Pointlet and Little Desk 39:16: Fewer features and simpler annual pricing 43:18: Quarterly payments and annual commitments 46:14: Brian’s current favorite: Claude Opus 5.5 49:14: Elon, xAI, and the AI race 52:14: Weekend plans YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: MicroConf Discretion Capital Knowatoa Muse: Meta's personal AI agent Introducing dots | OpenAI Instinct Grok Bot Introducing Claude Duet Appointlet Little Desk LiveKit opus 5.5 Claude Fable Elon Musk: Full Walter Isaacson Interview on AI, DOGE, the Debt & X | The Builders Billionaires Palmer Luckey And Ben Lamm Spin Up Startup To Genetically Engineer Military Dogs

Corey shares how he moved from marketing into coding, why he still keeps technical co-founders on some products, and how he thinks about balancing services, software, and content. The group also digs into AEO, paid ads, churn in productized services, and why manual customer research still matters. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 02:20 - Corey Haines and Conversion Factory 04:33 - Does everyone still need a technical co-founder? 06:21 - How Corey went from marketing to coding 10:08 - TrueList, Magister, and Corey’s other products 13:01 - Running several products instead of betting on one 15:26 - Building a business around a personal brand 17:33 - How AI changes testing ideas and building products 20:58 - Automated testing across 30 repos 24:50 - Spreading the risk across multiple products 27:24 - Josh Pigford and the debate over focus 31:31 - Why some products grow and then fade 34:33 - What to do when growth stalls 36:48 - SendFox, focus, and what counts as winning 38:52 - Churn and sales challenges in productized services 41:40 - Selling AI implementation and SEO services 46:14 - The value of talking to people 48:29 - What parts of marketing can you productize? 50:26 - SaaS marketing has changed—and Google feels it 52:52 - Which marketing channels should you try first? 56:24 - Finding the first customers for a niche product 59:14 - Learning how customers talk and buy 01:03:04 - AEO results: more visibility, traffic, and booked calls 01:05:24 - AEO beyond your own website 01:08:04 - The work AI still can’t skip 01:11:50 - Brian’s mix of ads, cold email, and experiments 01:16:03 - Growth curves and finding the next marketing channel 01:20:32 - Faster MVPs and choosing what to build 01:22:28 - Products Brian actually wants to work on 01:24:54 - Finding customers and problems worth solving YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Ruben’s comment on AI and marketing Josh Pigford’s new startup Corey Haines on GitHub Magister Marketing — AI Marketing Agent Jason Cohen’s “Elephant in the Room” Brian Casel on selling Productize Tim Soulo: “The only competitive advantage left is effort.” Conversion Factory — On-Demand Marketing for Tech Companies Corey Haines — Marketer, Builder, Writer Marketing Skills for Claude Code and AI Agents Truelist — Email Validation Platform Marc Lou on X Charleston AI — AI Engineering, Classes & Repair

Is DHH right in his prediction that handcrafted coding is done, is trying to "be the best" the best strategy, and can you skip the hard work and just do the easy parts of product launching and still find success? Chapters: Links: DHH keynote at Rails World Derrick Reimer on finding business ideas Ruben Gamez tweet Olly tweet MicroConf Europe AngelList TinySeed Amp Grok Muse Instinct Grok Bot ElevenLabs Reception.ai DocuSign Flywrite Mimeo Miro Evernote Bending Spoons

We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web? Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job 09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC-scale growth 14:58 - Who Laravel Cloud is actually built for 19:07 - Taylor's "best in category" tweet, unpacked 22:52 - Ambition and care beat chasing every feature 27:02 - Founders need a point of view, not just a new tool 31:46 - PHP's culture keep Laravel grounded 35:25 - Justin's Vegas Retreat 45:10 - Introducing Jev, and how it's different from an LLM 58:23 - Rosie, ChatGPT Live, and whether full-stack agents are any good 62:16 - "Eat the pain" for your customers as a strategy 77:41 - Aaron's Astra 3D office walkthrough demo 81:11 - Are courses dead? Where dev education goes next YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Jev announcement post Syntax: WTF is Jev? Aaron's product - Solo Aaron's 3D modeling with Astra 90s PC game: Incredible Machine New Builder Methods page Aaron Francis Introducing GPT-Live | OpenAI TypeSafe AI Free AI Voice Generator & Voice Agents Platform | ElevenLabs Compare AI Models: Pricing, Context & Benchmarks | OpenRouter

Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision of whether to keep product features bundled or spin them off into separate brands, while reflecting on the changing landscape of SaaS valuations and the challenges of maintaining energy as a solo founder. Chapters: Mentioned in this episode: Hidden Multipliers: Jumpstart Growth With Your Existing Budget and Team by Jason Cohen Find Your Carol | Skills from A Smart Bear Come to Charleston AI for all of your AI needs (r/TrueAnon) OrbanAI — AI agents that run inside your systems Tim Aton (@Tim_Aton) on X Company Of One: Why Staying Small Is the Next Big Thing for Business by Paul Jarvis Andrew Warner (@AndrewWarner) on X What Are Orbs? - Amp Spots.fm — Sponsor independent creators Kit: The Platform for Creators

Jordan says you need to have patience and urgency. Justin says, "focus on the little red box that creates results." Brian is thinking strategically about courses vs. downloadable products. Chapters: Mentioned in this episode: "I want $100 million" "You can make it complicated, or you can hit the golf ball." Justin's episode: "Don't over-engineer it" Justin's drawing: "Focus on what matters (the little red box)" Ryan Carson: "How I manage 15 AI agents 24/7 as a solo founder" Brian's Mimeo product "When you bundle too much in your product, your positioning becomes vague" Freshbooks CEO started a secret company to compete with his existing product

What "new" value can we create with AI? Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about how we can be more creative and ambitious and build things we wouldn't have built before. We also chatted about Grok Bot and xAI's land grab (Cursor acquisition and the SuperGrok Heavy plan). Also... Brian broke up with Claude?! Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 03:34 - The sudden rise and appeal of Grokbot 11:49 - Claude fatigue and the shift toward chief-of-staff AI agents 14:55 - How product experience is replacing model quality in the AI race 18:09 - Cursor's speed advantage, pricing pain, and team switching costs 26:08 - Enterprise loyalty and why model quality will commoditize 43:44 - AI for autonomous entities, trust, and community integration 49:11 - Building AI-native vs. consumer vs. professional use cases 57:10 - Trust as the bottleneck in sensitive fields like personal finance 60:22 - Transistor's video launch, pricing model, and MCP integration 66:14 - Jordan's new capital deal and leveraging extra runway 72:12 - Customer success hiring and Builder Methods' non-developer expansion 90:15 - Wrap up YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Jesse Hanley – Marketer, developer, and creator. Introducing Grok Bot – SpaceXAI's latest release. Shaan Puri on AI Loyalty – A candid take on switching tools. Cursor – The top AI coding agent. Caleb Porzio's Work Notes – Why Cursor outpaces Codex. Amazon’s Anthropic Stake – IPO valuation insights. Polsia – AI that manages operations autonomously. Mostly Technical #145 – Exploring marketing as engineering.

Is there a potential SaaS pocalypse? How can we adapt to changes and leverage new models for growth? Jordan, Justin, and Brian explore the current state of the software market, private equity dynamics, and the impact of AI on valuations. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 02:01 Finding distribution is difficult on FB Marketplace and online 12:05 The future of building software with AI and agent-first design 16:07 Market entry strategies for new products 19:57 Unbundling SaaS and the new software delivery models 23:46 The role of internal tools and side projects 28:03 The SaaS pocalypse 32:00 SaaS valuations and market dynamics 36:01 Designing simple interfaces with powerful backend features 39:59 The evolving landscape of SaaS and market opportunities 51:25 Opportunities in the current market 1:03:00 Life updates YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Mimeo: Own your email marketing stack Flywrite | The writing app with a terminal built in LiveKit Platform Resend Buttondown  tiiny.host  Make IPOs Great Again Tiny  Anne Frank The Exhibition  Visit the Chicago Museum of Ice Cream MxPx Goldfinger

How's your funnel doing? Jordan and Brian are joined by Henry Poydar to chat about integrating human and autonomous agents, building and testing product prototypes in days, not years, the importance of flexible, adaptive funnels, and debate the future of SaaS, unbundling, and the agent-first software paradigm.  Timestamps: YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Steady HeyRosy Builder Methods OpenRoutines.dev Claude Flywrite Vanta Drip Bento Help Scout

What happens to the value of software when everyone can make software? Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to The Panel 00:31 Brian’s Brighton Ruby trip 03:12 Building FlyWrite in the car 05:01 Why existing coding tools don’t work for writing 07:20 What FlyWrite actually does 11:37 Building version one with Fable 16:04 Jordan’s weekend build and first AI-native workflow 28:38 Claude Design and interactive prototyping 36:41 AI, software supply, and productivity 39:09 The Jeremy Giffin podcast episode 48:55 What AI means for Transistor and hosting 58:19 Google, Microsoft, Apple, and the AI distribution war 63:28 Figma, design careers, and the white-flag mindset 74:08 What happens to agencies and web designers 81:05 Transition pain vs. long-term upside 90:13 Becoming AI-native and where do displaced workers go? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Superconductor faster.dev ConductorAI Cursor Flywrite Railway Base44 Lovable Wildbit Blog (Natalie Nagele) Harvey ROI Calculator Spots.fm Spots (2018 archive) Product People shoutout (2013 archive) Claude Design Invest Like the Best — Jeremy Giffon Gal Shir on X Chef hierarchy pyramid The widening productivity-pay gap

Justin and Jordan talk about how Jordan made a change to their funnel and increased sign ups dramatically, improving team communication, conducting better employee reviews, and developing better workflows for project handoffs between employees when AI is being used. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:45 Taking control of your funnel 05:24 Why trust matters in e-commerce 08:18 Optimizing the customer experience 19:10 Doubling sign-ups 23:08 Customer demand wins 25:34 Putting the credit card upfront 29:26 Customer demand and the funnel 31:56 Question your assumptions 35:00 Reviews, pay, and philosophy 44:14 Surviving survival mode 46:40 How we think about pay 49:00 Motivation and career growth 54:05 AI and developer ownership 01:00:54 Keeping the quality bar high 01:03:51 Building a culture of accountability YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Transistor.fm HeyRosy Claude AI Victor's Post on Market Pull Ryan Cohen Tony Fadell Cardhook The Walt Disney Company | Acquired

If you're trying to fix your funnel, where do you start? And how much of an impact do we think Fable is going to have on AI pricing?  Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:27 Impact of AI and Market Dynamics 06:24 Taking Control of Your Funnel 17:12 The impact of Fable on AI Costs 26:04 SpaceX IPO and Betting on Space 42:56 Opportunities for SaaS Businesses in 2026 with Domain Expertise 01:07:36 Allowances for kids works best in with communism YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Data School Kickbacks.ai - Get paid for waiting SpaceX IPO Prospectus Fable AI AI sandwich After Automation OpenAI Considers Drastic Price Cuts (WSJ) SpaceX stock jumps after record IPO, making Musk the first trillionaire SpaceX is asking for $1.75. That's ridiculous (but I'm giving them money anyway) Andrew McCalip

Justin's got a major life question for the podcast, Jordan's trying to not be angry, and Brian thinks he's cracked the video editing code. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:06 Justin's Big Question 10:04 Personal Reflections on City Life 13:05 Family Dynamics and Future Living Plans 24:37 The Energy of New Beginnings 30:22 The Wisdom of Solitude vs. Ambition 38:58 Accelerating Growth and Optimization 50:41 Navigating Advertising Challenges 53:17 The Impact of Confidence on Communication 01:01:58 Innovating Video Editing with AI 01:08:00 Balancing Quality and Quantity in Content Creation 01:14:44 The Human Cost of Rapid AI Adoption YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Do the Hard Thing video-use HyperFrames Mediocre ideas Building Software is Learning Transistor Video Podcast Hosting

After figuring out how to stay in shape with exercise, Jordan and Brian wrestle with what each other's north star should be in their day to day work.  Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:19 Peptides and Supplements 08:06 Gym vs Home Workouts 14:02 Daily Walking 17:01 Brian's Calorie Tracking 21:40 The Importance of Optimization 24:27 Jordan's Ad Spend Thoughts 29:08 SEO and Email Marketing Automation 33:58 Brian's trying to leverage AI to limit bottlenecks 53:23 Balancing Urgency and Ambition 55:52 Connecting Daily Tasks to Long-Term Goals 01:03:29 Navigating Multiple North Stars YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Lose It! - Weight Loss That Fits HeyRosy.com Builder Methods Claude AI Hermes Agent Platform

How is multiplayer being addressed in AI, should we scale humans or agents, and is every small business going to vibe code their own apps? With special guest Henry Poydar. Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to The Panel 03:06 Business Updates 05:53 Coordination Challenges in Teams with AI 11:48 Trust and Accountability in Team Dynamics 17:45 The Future of Team Structures 20:30 Scaling with Agents vs. Traditional Teams 25:48 The Future of Company Organization 27:58 The Intersection of AI and Creativity 36:02 Challenges in the Music Industry with AI 40:32 Navigating the VC Landscape 45:45 The Indie Entrepreneur Path 48:20 Vertical Saas and tool building 01:01:17 Weeknd plans and talking politics YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Steady Henry Poydar TinaFey on what it's really like to have a teenage daughter Charlie AI Devin How I build agents that work the night shift Granola Vibe-Coded AI 'Slop' Is Flooding the World With Potentially Dangerous Code—'Eventually It Will Catch Up to Us'

Are you feeling a mixture of excitement and burnout at the pace AI coding seems to be pushing you? Is it sustainable in the long run or do you worry about what you'll be like in 6 months time? Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 03:22 Advertising Strategies and Funnels 08:12 Jordan experiments with Partnership Ads and Organic Content Ads 12:03 Transistor's Video Podcasting Platform Launch 21:32 Brian's YouTube Channel Growth 30:27 Understanding Customer Engagement and Sales Dynamics 35:56 Navigating Pricing Changes in AI Tools 01:02:36 The Impact of AI on Work Intensity and Burnout 01:06:19 The Evolution of Product Development and Market Dynamics 01:13:48 The New Normal: Speed, Pressure, and Success in Business YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Claude changes its pricing Wrappers vs steamrollers (and who owns the customer) Hire creators to do your ads Post to all social platforms AI brain exhaustion + burnout Matt Wensing: "Burnout happens when the reward no longer justifies the effort / perceived risk." Brian's new course: "Become the builder" The meme that took over Twitter this week

Jason Cohen (founder of WP Engine) joined as a surprise guest. We got into his writing process, why "distribution is the new moat" is either not new or not true, what actually counts as a moat (Basecamp, Linear, Lemon Squeezy), and his framework for funnels: the quality of who enters the top matters more than every other step combined. Jason's new book Hidden Multipliers is available for preorder. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:28 Jason Cohen's Journey and Insights 04:18 Writing Process and Content Creation 10:24 Distribution as a Business Strategy 13:15 Debate on Distribution as a Moat 25:20 The Concept of Moats in Business 26:31 Social Media vs. AdWords: The Distribution Debate 32:09 Basecamp's Unique Positioning and Brand Identity 38:32 The Role of Brand in Modern Business 48:46 Understanding Customer Behavior Through Data 51:08 The Importance of Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) 57:35 The Challenge of End-to-End Funnel Visibility 01:07:00 Metrics and Their Role in Business Strategy YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Jason's new book: Hidden Multipliers Jason's blog "Elephant in the room: the myth of exponential hypergrowth" Lenny's tweet: "Distribution is the new moat" JR Farr's tweet: practical distribution framework Jason's post: "Things mostly “fail” even at the best companies. It's weird, if you think about it."  "Selecting the right product KPIS"

SaaS life! How do you deal with the daily sales anxiety? Brian recounts a major March spike from viral YouTube, a full site redesign and repositioning, and the fear of launches falling flat, while Justin describes simplifying Transistor’s funnel and tracking daily signups. We debate when to “double down on what’s working” versus making scary directional changes, emphasizing founder gut, credibility with teams, and remote-team alignment. On distribution, they argue product and marketing are linked,  and “hand-to-hand combat” on channels like Reddit, discuss ads and YouTube as ongoing systems, and highlight social proof via reviews (including Jordan’s use of Senja). Jordan shares using Claude to investigate the Allbirds deal and leverage personal networks to reach key deal participants, reinforcing founder curiosity and agency.  Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome 00:48 April Revenue Whiplash 02:11 Builder Methods Relaunch Fears 04:48 Daily Sales Mood Swings 05:59 Simplifying the Funnel 12:43 Trusting Founder Gut 27:21 Distribution in the AI Era 35:10 Practical GEO and Reddit Tactics 40:55 Customer Culture and Reviews 43:47 Engineering Social Proof 51:38 AI Investigates Allbirds Deal 01:10:49 Churn Through Weird Lens 01:15:59 Weekend Wrap And Skate Talk YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com Links mentioned in this episode: Senja

Justin, Jordan, and Brian discuss the importance of understanding your ideal customer profile, the role of ambition in customer segmentation, and effective strategies for content marketing and product positioning in the tech and SaaS industries. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 03:22 Authenticity in Content Creation 06:25 Updates on Business and Personal Life 09:21 Partnerships: Successes and Challenges 12:26 Navigating Sponsorships and Brand Deals 15:31 Exploring Video Podcasting and Market Demand 26:16 Navigating Pricing Models and Customer Expectations for Video Podcasting 31:27 Integrating AI into Marketing Strategies 45:20 Understanding Ideal Customer Profiles (ICP) 01:00:34 Understanding Customer Segmentation 01:04:23 Navigating Customer Needs and Expectations 01:13:36 Pricing Power and Value Proposition 01:27:17 Shifts in YouTube Content Dynamics 01:33:12 Leveraging Content Clips for Growth 01:38:02 The Importance of Regular Content 01:42:20 Tim Cook's Leadership and Future Innovations at Apple YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 🦋 Links mentioned in this episode: Content Rewards PostBridge Marc Andreessen on Product and Marketing Jobs to Be Done Framework

In this episode we discuss how small teams can leverage AI as teammates, the impact on business outcomes, and the cultural shifts driven by AI advancements. How would Steve Jobs handle marketing and selling AI at Apple? How do the kids today think about AI? And Jordan explains the Allbirds nonsense. Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 01:38 The Evolution of Teamwork and Tools 07:41 Balancing Accountability and Autonomy 10:40 The Role of Agents in Team Dynamics 13:42 Challenges of Implementing AI in Business 16:36 The Future of Marketing and AI 22:39 Imagining Steve Jobs in the Age of AI 30:42 The Value of Struggle and Learning in a Tech-Driven World 39:58 Navigating Career Paths in an Evolving Job Market 45:50 Navigating Job Market Changes 50:16 Jordan explains The Allbirds Controversy 57:04 The Power of Attention in Business 01:02:29 Storytelling in Marketing 01:10:51 Building Relationships for Effective Distribution 01:15:11 Pricing Transistor's Video Strategy 01:23:42 Innovative Marketing Strategies and Anticipation Phases YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 🦋 Links mentioned in this episode: Henry's product - https://runsteady.com/ Linear blog post (brave) - https://linear.app/next Allbirds turns into an AI  company - https://creators.yahoo.com/lifestyle/story/the-unhinged-genius-of-allbirds-39m-exit-sell-the-brand-spike-demand-become-ai-164312969.html The company that acquired the old Allbirds brand - https://www.axnygroup.com/our-brands CNBC: “Struggling shoe retailer Allbirds makes bizarre pivot to AI, adds $127 million in value”